Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 We saw that was just a lot of emotions surrounding GMOs and not much of that was backed by the science. And even when we look at the science, the science is kind of mixed both ways. And I know Rachel and I kind of went in there thinking we would be totally pro GMO all the way, but we also saw both sides of the issue. When you can look at the science, you can actually make that kind of more factual decision. That's not just based on emotion.
Speaker 2 00:00:27 Welcome to another episode of GMO watch. I'm your host Emily journey. I'm curious about GMOs and why I choose to eat organic and non GMO foods. My guests and I are going to break down the hype from the facts around GMOs in our food so that you can come to your own conclusions about what you want.
Speaker 3 00:00:51 My guest on today's episode of GMO watch are Rachel Natalia and Emma Hinkle also known as the Stephanie says, Rachel and Emma are grad students at UNC. They host the very popular podcast. The stem niece does, and they are two scientists who are passionate about educating the public about science in the news. I'm so happy you're here. I have been listening to your podcast. It's great. It's makes science relatable to people like me. And so, because I don't know much, I'm more of the social sciences in my head. And so it's great to be able to listen to your podcast and get information that makes sense. And then I can understand and trust because you obviously do your research. Oh
Speaker 0 00:01:41 Yes. Lots of research.
Speaker 3 00:01:44 And you're a university of North Carolina. Is that right?
Speaker 4 00:01:48 That's correct. Yeah. Emma and I are both grad students. So I'm Rachel and I'm a sixth year graduate student in the cell biology program. And I do a lot of neuroscience. I don't usually study plants. So there was a lot of reading to do on the plant background for me, but,
Speaker 0 00:02:04 And I'm Emma and I am a fourth year PhD candidate in genetics and molecular biology. And again, yeah, not really familiar with plans. Don't do a lot with animals, but what I study is how muscles develop in the lab.
Speaker 3 00:02:16 So you're almost outta here, Emma, you're like almost done, right. Rachel,
Speaker 0 00:02:21 It's a lot closer than I am. So I'm kind of like looking to Rachel, like, oh, I want to be there.
Speaker 3 00:02:27 What's going to happen to the podcast. The Semini says, will it continue?
Speaker 4 00:02:31 Well, it's been helpful that we, you know, because of COVID, we've had to move to this virtual platform so we can do it. It's now from a distance.
Speaker 3 00:02:40 Awesome.
Speaker 0 00:02:42 Yeah. Our goal was to keep it going. I know Rachel is planning to do a post-doc I think up in Boston, right? So we should still be able to come up with topics. And I mean, we both love doing this and we've had a lot of people just say how helpful it is to understand these complex science topics. And I mean, for us, it's never been, oh, let's get a ton of listeners, just let's for the people that are listening, let's do the best we can for them.
Speaker 3 00:03:03 And it's fun.
Speaker 0 00:03:04 It is so much fun. And it's great
Speaker 4 00:03:06 For us to connect with you that someone that has a specific interest in one of the topics that we covered, because we don't always get to interact directly with listeners. So, you know, being able to talk to you directly and answer questions is really fun for us.
Speaker 3 00:03:19 Awesome. Because I have questions in your three part series. You answered important questions, such as what are GMOs, what are concerns about GMOs and what are the pros about GMOs? And I'm hoping that we're going to be able to do a mini version of that in this episode. So can we start with what are GMOs
Speaker 4 00:03:42 We've found that it's kind of complicated to define what exactly a GMO is because it gets a little messy and into the weeds, if you will.
Speaker 0 00:03:49 Yeah, definitely. When we were doing our research, I mean, there are people define them all different ways, but the way we kind of defined it on our podcast was that GMOs are organisms that work produced by modifying DNA specifically by adding DNA to the genome, whether that be genome of a plant or an animal. And we know that these changes concur in selective breeding and GMOs kind of act as the silver bullet to maybe make a plant more resistant to pesticides or produce more crops. And in the case of selective breeding, selective breeding is more of like a blunt hammer trying to accomplish the same sort of thing. So GMOs are a way that we've kind of modernized. A lot of the farming techniques have happened in the past thousands of years, but doing it in a way where we understand the genetics of a plant and can specifically say, we want to tweak something and potentially produce more crops or make it resistant to pesticides.
Speaker 3 00:04:42 So you talked about, you mentioned selective breeding being like a blunt hammer. What is selective breeding?
Speaker 4 00:04:50 Yeah. So selective breeding is when a farmer or anyone really like identifies this trait that they see in the plant. That's favorable say, you know, it's bigger, bigger fruit, you get more food out of that. And then they try to choose those plants that are bigger and breed them the seeds from those more and more so that eventually they have a whole field of plants that they're all bigger. And I think the difference between GMOs and selective breeding is that, you know, you're doing the same thing. You're trying to improve the plant, but you know, farmers back in the day or just using the best tools they have to do that. And genetic engineering. It's just kind of a new tool to do that in a more specific way, because with selective breeding, you don't really know which genes you're changing. You just see the end result that the fruit gets bigger, but you could be changing one gene. You could be changing many to get that.
Speaker 3 00:05:40 Maybe be making it bigger, but less resistant to
Speaker 4 00:05:45 Yeah. You don't know what the unintended consequences could be with selective reading either.
Speaker 3 00:05:49 Right. And so it's like an experiment.
Speaker 4 00:05:52 Yes. But people feel really uncomfortable experimenting with the food supply.
Speaker 3 00:05:58 Yeah. So that's, that's interesting. So I never really heard that comparison between kind of the way things used to be. Maybe companies still do that, but this is a more targeted type of
Speaker 4 00:06:10 The approach. Yeah. And there's kind of more, there's more like violent ways that you can, if you will do selective breeding because you can, instead of just hoping that you get a plant, that's bigger, farmers can expose the seeds to ultraviolet radiation or chemicals that both of those things will cause mutations in the DNA. And probably several mutations are happening because we know from evolution that when we take what's happened, that's how, you know, these changes are happening little by little, the ideas. Like if you make a bunch of mutations, maybe you'll make one that makes the plant bigger.
Speaker 3 00:06:47 So you mentioned radiation, that sounds like an episode of Spiderman. So GMOs, I have most commonly thought of them in terms of the food that I eat.
Speaker 4 00:06:59 There's just been such a strong reaction against GMOs in this country. That, and I mean, there's a reason for concern. You're releasing something into the environment. You don't know how it could change the diversity.
Speaker 3 00:07:10 So I think it's interest just science in general, scientists can dedicate their life to valuable research and for a very long time seeing the execution of their research and the implementation of their research. But when it does happen, it can be so explosive and powerful. And I mean, the scientists who were researching Corona viruses, right. Struggled to just get funding, right. And then, boom, thank goodness. They didn't quit. And we're continuing to do their research. And then we're prepared when there was a need for a vaccine that, you know, they weren't starting from zero.
Speaker 4 00:07:53 You totally read my mind with that. That's exactly what I was thinking and how fortuitous it was that, you know, people were already looking at this because of things like SARS and MERS and you just had to kind of plug and play with the star sequence to start CB two. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:08:07 And that's one thing too. I mean, when you're in science, you have to always be advocating on behalf of yourself for funding. So that's the thing, a lot of these scientists, they truly believe in what they're researching because they know the long-term effects of what could happen. Say in the case of Corona viruses, where they knew something could happen with the coronavirus eventually. So they kept pursuing this line of research, but it is sometimes difficult when the public doesn't necessarily see the value in this research. And there are so many stories of scientists spending decades upon decades researching the same thing and doing the same sort of experiments. Then it finally clicking like 15 or 20 years later.
Speaker 3 00:08:41 Yeah. It's can seem like a thankless job sometimes and really not knowing what the outcome will be in the end. Right. And so it's like a leap of faith too. So this is pretty awesome about the changes that are happening. So GMOs are controversial and have been for a long time. And there's reason for that. What is behind that?
Speaker 0 00:09:02 I think the big thing with GMO's and we talked about this a little bit on our first podcast was when you had the first GMO produced and put onto the market that was in 1994. And at that point we didn't even know the sequence of the human genome. People knew so little about genetics and DNA. And then science was just like, oh, here's this tomato, you can eat it. It's going to be better. It's going to have a better shelf life and tastes better. So there was a lot of kind of miscommunication that was happening. And then that's kind of built upon things over time. And again, as Rachel mentioned earlier, too, when you're tampering with the food supply or looking at different aspects of it, it kind of makes people little wary. But a lot of people also don't realize that the FDA doesn't approve every food in our country.
Speaker 0 00:09:44 They basically just, if there's a complaint about a food, they'll kind of contact the company that creates that food and then maybe pull it up from the market. But there's very little regulation that's actually happening. So I think if people realize some of that aspects and also realized that GMOs are more of a way of targeted selective breeding, it might help with some of that controversy. And that's kind of why we did this initial podcast is because we saw that it was just a lot of emotions surrounding GMOs and not much of that was backed by the science. And even when we look at the science, like the science is kind of mixed both ways. And I know Rachel and I kind of thought, oh, I think we both went in there thinking we would be totally pro GMO all the way, but we also saw both sides of the issue. When you can look at the science, you can actually make that kind of more factual decision. That's not just based on emotion.
Speaker 4 00:10:32 Yeah. And touching off that on how you said, you know, DNA was kind of a new concept to the public. We also did a podcast covering Jurassic park, the movie. And I mean, that was a lot of people's first introduction to DNA. And what happens in that movie is that a new technology is introduced and disaster and SUSE. So people have this idea that you are going to have unintended consequences because we're not God, we don't know everything true.
Speaker 3 00:11:03 What do you think about unintended consequences? I mean, we don't know everything. What do you think about the risk of that?
Speaker 4 00:11:09 I think it depends what you're talking about, whether the risk is worth it, but if it's something like we talked about golden rice in one of our podcasts and the goal of golden rice was to make a food that had vitamin a in it because vitamin a deficiency causes blindness and death all around the world in developing countries. And I think in that case, yeah, that's a risk that I'm willing to take. If you can save a lot of lives.
Speaker 0 00:11:34 Well, we have kind of the flip side of that and we talk a lot on our podcast about CRISPR, which is a gene editing technology. You have the flip side where people are trying to do CRISPR on embryos. Like that came out back, I think February, 2018 that a researcher in China did CRISPR work on some embryos. And that's a little more, we don't really know the consequences of that. And so it's a good example of, it really depends what issue you're looking at, but I think it's important. And this is something we talked about on the podcast a lot is just scientists. We don't know everything. And a lot of scientists will portray to the media and to other people just that we know everything, but there is so much more to learn in science. I mean, I feel like the longer I get into my PhD, the more I think, wow, I know nothing. Like how can I get a PhD because there's so much more to learn. Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:12:19 And I mean, another thing just think about the vaccine that we're all wanting to get right now, most of us that's really new technology.
Speaker 3 00:12:27 I'm ready put it in my own right now.
Speaker 4 00:12:30 And that's how I feel too, because I don't want to get COVID and I don't want to give COVID to somebody that I love or somebody that I work with, but it's a risk, you know, it's a cost benefit analysis every time.
Speaker 3 00:12:41 Yeah. And I think sometimes I forget my privilege of being able to decline food and that is not a privilege available to everyone. And I'm not at risk of blindness for malnutrition or anything like that going on. So it's easy for me to say, well, that's not how it should be there. You know, no GMOs, that's a little simplistic and really just kind of thinking inside my own bubble. Right. So what you're saying there makes sense to me. So do you think there needs to be in order to generate more trust? Do you think there needs to be maybe some more regulation of, of GMOs? Is that,
Speaker 0 00:13:23 Sir, this is an interesting question because one of the things we talked about in the GMO podcast was just how people are confused that America does not have much regulation of their GMOs. Whereas if you look at Europe and the EU, they have a lot of regulation of their GMOs. So I think in terms of GMOs, more regulation in America would be helpful and could help people kind of maybe trust a little more in them. And if there's more data to back it up, but again, it's almost like the damage has been done in a way. And it's going to take a lot of work to get back from that.
Speaker 3 00:13:57 So for example, so you brought up the European union where GMOs are banned for the most part and they're highly regulated, but that wouldn't necessarily be the same result in the United States. If there were more regulation of GMOs here, it actually might create more trust. And so for example, there's going to be required labeling here soon, right? Maybe in 20, is it 20, 22 coming up? Yes,
Speaker 0 00:14:24 I think so. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:14:25 So do you think that'll really happen that we'll get that labeling?
Speaker 4 00:14:30 I think it's going to be difficult to make sure everything that technically should be labeled gets labeled.
Speaker 0 00:14:37 Yeah. Especially. I mean, when we did the research, it's just, people's definition of GMOs really depends on what you're doing and what gene you're inserting, how you're inserting it. I mean, even some crops that are genetically edited with CRISPR gene editing. If you just delete a gene, it's not considered a genetically modified organism, but if you add a gene, it is considered a genetically modified organism. And in both cases you're using the same sort of technology. So it really depends on if they can regulate a definition for what a GMO is and enforce that across.
Speaker 3 00:15:09 Yeah. So that I imagine that that would be difficult. So I love Pringles potato chips. I was looking on the canister and I didn't see anything about GMO's and I actually always get, I can't serve Pringles when I go on vacation too. So last time I was on vacation, I, I actually emailed Pringles and I said, Hey, I like to eat Pringles when I'm on vacation. They're probably not good for me. They didn't argue with
Speaker 4 00:15:37 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:15:38 There's something
Speaker 3 00:15:38 To be said. No. And then so, but I wanted to tell them I liked them. Right. But are there GMOs? Let me know. So they responded with yes, yes, there are. And they gave me all kinds of resources and I was like, wow. You know, we can, as consumers influence food producers, right. Simply by what we choose to buy and communicating, they make it so easy to communicate as on the packaging. Right. I can just email them and boom, next day got a response.
Speaker 4 00:16:11 That's amazing to me. I never would have guessed that they would answer you at all.
Speaker 3 00:16:15 Really? No, they sent this. They said, yes, they do. And here's more information. And I think they said something about there's, you know, there's no evidence to show that they're harmful and here's this resource where you can look at a list of all the foods that we offer that have GMOs. So I encourage people, whatever your, your food preferences are to make them known. There's no excuse for not doing that.
Speaker 4 00:16:40 It's really funny that you mentioned that experience with a food company because Emma and I, we did a whole episode on vitamins and supplements, which supplements are something that are not regulated at all by the FDA. And the author talks about an experience where she was just trying to get some information on this supplement. Like what's known scientifically what research has been done on this. And they could not help her by phone. They answered her phone call, but they couldn't point to any resources at all.
Speaker 3 00:17:07 Yeah. Maybe different department. Hey, give it a shot. So email, some of those companies, see I'm going to keep emailing it. Like it's reinforcing. I did the same thing with Walker, shortbread cookies. Same thing. I love your cookies. Do they have GMOs responded very next day? No GMOs in our cookies. Thanks for asking. They didn't bash GMOs or anything like that. They were just like, Nope, there's no GMOs. He said, there's been, you know, in my lifetime, I'm 50 I'm, I'm not that old, but I have experienced, you know, I have memories of different things that make me wonder about GMOs. But I think the first time I ever even became aware of what's in our food, that matters is when the nutrition facts label was starting to be required. You would think that like they were pulling teeth. It was so much drama around, oh, we can't do this. It's bad for small business. It's so expensive. It's awful. It's awful. And now it's like, well of course the nutrition label is on there. So that's like my earliest memory of ingredients. Right. So can you imagine even not having that label on it's like on everything? No.
Speaker 0 00:18:19 No. Hey, I mean, that'd be crazy just to have to estimate. I do a lot of weightlifting in the gym, so I kind of keep track of what I eat. Make sure I'm getting enough protein. So to not know how much protein is in my food, that would be,
Speaker 3 00:18:30 Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like, you know, driving without a seatbelt. How did we survive? I have no idea. And then the other thing is why did taco bell change from yellow tacos to white tacos? What was the deal with taco bell? And can you tell me about that,
Speaker 0 00:18:47 Rachel, this is probably your
Speaker 4 00:18:49 Taco bell. I remember them having yellow tacos. I do. I remember, um, they got very freaked out from some of the BT corn. There was this scandal where certain BT corn, that the FDA was kind of skeptical about. They had tested a couple of different strains and this one of them, they saw that it might cause allergies. There was no direct evidence, but it just looked kind of sketchy. So they said, you can feed this current to animals, but not to humans. And those seeds got completely mixed up, even though farmers tried to keep them separate. So this suspect seed got into the human food supply and it was detected and taco bell taco shells. I don't know if that's what you're referring to. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:19:35 So I remember this concern right here.
Speaker 4 00:19:38 You could recall. Yeah. They had to, all the taco shells in the store were getting recalled.
Speaker 3 00:19:43 I had an example of something where, cause we're talking about human error here. Right. So tighter regulation would that have helped in this situation?
Speaker 4 00:19:54 I'm not sure. I mean, in a sense they were trying to be pretty careful. They told them this is not good for human consumption. And then somewhere along the supply chain, it got us. Yeah. So I guess some kind of regulations could have been put in place.
Speaker 3 00:20:11 Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I don't know the answers.
Speaker 4 00:20:16 I mean, it's kind of concerning that these seeds that were meant for animals got completely mixed up in the silos and you think what else is getting mixed up?
Speaker 3 00:20:26 Well, this has been really fun. Are there any questions that people should be asking that they're not asking or things that people should be talking about?
Speaker 0 00:20:35 I think one thing and we, we mentioned this a little bit. It's just so much is focused on the concerns with GMOs, but it's also good to look at some of the pros as well. And when we were doing some research, we found that because of GMOs, a lot of GMOs are focused on either pest resistance or even sometimes breeding the plants. So that way they can resist the pests themselves. And this has led to pesticide spraying being reduced globally by 8.6% or 776 million kilograms. So there are some good things that are coming out of GMOs and it is a big deal. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot. That means the environment is going to be better because there's less pesticides being sprayed. And we're also seeing that these crops can lower greenhouse gas emissions too. So they've kind of estimated that this reduction is equivalent to about getting rid of 15 million cars on the roads just by being able to harvest these GMO crops a little bit differently and not have to use as much tractors and other sorts of farmers.
Speaker 4 00:21:38 Definitely. So there's the environmental impact you can make with GMOs. But also, I mean, I think once we clarify the safety issues, I think it will be exciting to see where we can go with food with this. You know, the possibilities are endless, as long as we figure out what we need to do genetically to make those changes. You can imagine peanuts that don't cause allergies and people, if you find out what it is and peanuts that causes that allergic reaction, like maybe people that used to be allergic to peanut butters could have peanut butter Sunday. So
Speaker 3 00:22:12 Yeah, on the same plane with people and have it's really for the rest of us who want our peanuts on the planet.
Speaker 0 00:22:20 I mean, those honey roasted peanuts are something special.
Speaker 3 00:22:24 Yeah. Even if you don't like peanut butter, you're allergic to it. You have that. I mean, that's a serious allergy, that's a big deal. And so even if you don't have an interest in eating peanut butter, just to not have to worry about being exposed to it, big deal,
Speaker 4 00:22:40 Definitely. And people are working on that in terms of meat. Because I don't know if you've heard of that tick infection. I forget what the infection is called, where you get bitten by the tick and then you become allergic to red meat. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 00:22:55 New Zealand, like
Speaker 0 00:22:57 No here in America. So they found it, especially in hunters. So people that will hunt for a living or just are out in the woods a ton. And the weird thing is my sister almost. We thought that she had this for a while. Cause she had these weird allergic reactions. But the thing that's odd with it is that you didn't always get the reaction like right after you ate the meat, like it could be days afterwards. So trying to trace these reactions was really difficult. And I think there was a researcher who came actually and talked at UNC and is doing a lot of research into this because yeah. I mean to not be able to eat meat and I think technically you couldn't eat meat from anything that had four legs was what they ended up deciding. I had never
Speaker 3 00:23:34 Heard that. I hope that stays rare.
Speaker 4 00:23:36 I think it's pretty rare. So I hope it never happens to any of us.
Speaker 3 00:23:41 Yeah. So GMO crops can, you know, is true to say that more people can eat in the world with GMO crops. Is that right?
Speaker 4 00:23:51 I think so. Because you get just off the bat, you're getting better crop yields because you have things like Roundup ready that like you spray or beside and not have to worry about the weeds taking up those nutrients you're protecting from pests so that your crops are just doing better is the first thing. And then after that, I mean, I'm not aware of crops that are like this now, but you could use genetics to grow bigger and better foods too, or foods that are more nutritious like golden rice.
Speaker 3 00:24:18 Yeah. Here's a big question. This is really my big question. Is it possible to be pro GMO and hate Monsanto?
Speaker 4 00:24:27 Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:24:29 Definitely. Definitely.
Speaker 4 00:24:32 That's that's another thing I was thinking about when you're asking, what kind of questions should we be asking? Like why is this all in the hands of one company that scares me?
Speaker 3 00:24:43 There could be a whole list of reasons to not like Monsanto. I haven't researched enough to know just, I only hear rumors. Right. There's a lot,
Speaker 4 00:24:52 I think Emma's the expert because she's watched a documentary about this, but I've just read a couple of things in articles.
Speaker 0 00:24:58 Yeah. I don't re I watched this documentary. I think it was back in either middle school or high school, but I remember just being like, Monsanto's the devil, like, that's what I kind of got out of that documentary. But I, I definitely, when we were doing this GMO research, we didn't really touch into Monsanto as much because that's just a whole, there's this almost like a separate issue there than just GMOs because it kind of brings in the whole company and the research they do is funded by them. So you kind of wonder if they're faking any results. Cause that's something we really get into on the podcast is when you're looking at results from papers is look and see where the funding's coming from. Look and see if someone has a vested interest in the company and that company's then funding them. So Monsanto is one of those where I think we could just kind of choose to ignore and try and focus on the universities are doing research into GMOs or other smaller companies. Because as soon as you get like a huge company in there and they kind of have a monopoly over some of these GMO technologies, it is a little concerning,
Speaker 4 00:25:57 But they can do extraordinary things to when they want to. Like for instance, the papaya crops in Hawaii, uh, had some virus and they were almost know they're in trouble. And then Monsanto's stepped in and worked together with a university scientist and they developed a GMO papaya that was resistant to this pets and they saved the pies in Hawaii so they can do good things. But should we depend on one company for that? Or is it better if we break it up across multiple companies or should university scientists be more active in this kind of research? Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:26:32 So not only did they save the papaya, they saved all of the jobs associated with.
Speaker 4 00:26:38 Right.
Speaker 3 00:26:40 So, yeah. Okay. So it's possible to not confuse GMOs with Monsanto.
Speaker 4 00:26:47 I mean, it's so hard to think about it like that because they produce most, I don't know the exact number, but they probably produce most of the GMOs used in this country. So it seems like a hard thing to do, but it's not the same as the technology, you know?
Speaker 3 00:27:00 Yeah. This has been great. I'm thrilled that you decided to come on my show, even though it's new and you know, I think I want this to be the first episode because you really have done a great job of covering all of the questions. It's, you know, they're the basic questions that people have, you know, what are GMOs? You know, what are the concerns about GMOs? Why are we even thinking about GMOs? What are the pros, right? Why should we think of GMOs as a positive thing, right. The positive impact they're having on the world. So you've been fantastic. So the Stephanie says, and so you're on apple podcasts and Stitcher.
Speaker 0 00:27:41 Yeah. We're on Spotify, apple podcasts, Google podcasts. I'm in the process of getting us on Stitcher. We have Instagram and a Twitter and a Facebook. So there are lots of ways to connect with us.
Speaker 3 00:27:53 Yeah. So I found you on Facebook, it was easy. facebook.com/stephanie says, did I get
Speaker 0 00:27:59 Yes. Slash Demone says, and then on Instagram and Twitter, we're at stem and east as pod. So a little bit different there. Awesome. Thank you so much for having us enemy. We appreciate Hey that you listened to our podcast and wanted to share it with others. And just letting us kind of talk about to the both sides of the coin. Cause that's kind of our big goal with stem Denise's is just to show people that you can approach an issue and look at both sides of it. And we're not ever trying to tell people what to think or what to do, but really just to give them the tools they need to make their own decisions about
Speaker 4 00:28:28 Science. Definitely. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 00:28:31 Thank you so much, Rachel and Emma, you've been fantastic. Who knows? Maybe we'll do this again.
Speaker 2 00:28:40 Thank you for listening to this episode of GMO watch. If you love the episode, head over to apple podcasts and leave us a rating and a review. This helps other listeners know what you think about our show and they'll share GMO watch with more people like you as reviews come in, I'll read them and give you a shout out. So make sure you add your Instagram handle to your review. I'll see you next week.
